Need some more love for the default weapon M4!!

M4PLAYERM4PLAYER
First Assault Rep: 725
Posts: 12
Member
edited July 16 in Suggestions and Feedback
Hello,
My first experience with First Assault was during the closed Beta, when it was first released into Steam as Early Access. I enjoyed the game back then and now thinking of the good games I have had before, I installed the game again. While there aren't very heavy changes since I stopped past 9 months or so... it was good to see that the game has an active community and quick match feature finds game very quickly!

I have played quite a lot of online fps games for pc and many times, I find myself sticking with the default weapon for most length of my play time. The reason for this is because I just dislike grinding for new weapons and the default weapons usually has it's own strength that allows it to be quite effective enough against newly designed guns. Most of the games, M4 is known as a head-shooter. It's accuracy is usually one it's strong trait. Unfortunately, the M4a1 in this game lacks a clear 'direction'.

True, M4 is a default gun but right now, there is just no reason for someone to be using this gun because the default smg does a much better job. This default gun is what most new players will be starting with. I believe that the players should be given the opportunity to choose to continue using the default gun or buy something else. I have chosen to stick with the default gun and made a lot of modifications to it before the major gun recoil/bloom patch. That was because the performance of this gun was quite good with 1 tap- burst fire allowing accurate head shots. The current state of M4a1 has nothing advantageous. The gun is still weak in terms of it's damage/rate of fire, the range of effectiveness lags behind other guns, it's recoil kicks in quite early compared to the other guns. Hell, AK's recoil is better than this gun and that gun is more powerful and accurate! And some new guns like Seburo, or HKX (AR version) has almost no recoil for the first 3-4 shots. This can be further strengthened increasing its' damage, accuracy and stability. All of these guns are also quite accurate for the first two shots in sprint and zoomed in. M4 is abysmal and all the bullets will bounce off in all directions with such huge bloom.

For the new players who cannot buy new guns very quickly, I can imagine this game being very frustrating and probably boring after first couple hours. Much of the negative feedback on Steam for this game is largely due to new players needing to grind for better guns and that default weapon just cannot keep up with the game overall. Unforunately, new players realize they are quickly at a disadvantage against people using guns with less bloom/recoil but higher damage/rof and leave with bad initial impression of the game. As such, they are under the impression that this game is another "pay to win" which it certainly isn't! The game still has gun balance issues to work on but it certainly is not a P2W.

Some suggestions that I could make for the default gun is to make it more accurate and increase range of effectiveness. I think it's damage is fine as M4 is not only a default gun but also known for accuracy instead of a hard hitter. Or, make it a little bit more stable. I believe that M4's current damage (35) is in good place ( while it is sometimes frustrating to see players survive with 3 hits into the chest. This is with 3 dmg+ mod).

Anyways, I am just an average player but I am making this post because I was disappointed to see very little changes to the AR guns for the upcoming major gun balance patch and very few community posts regarding the state of the default weapon. I will be honest that I am also writing this post after having some bad games just now but I still like this game and I like where the game is going. With KD of above 1.5 and being above top 1% players with 1.2 KD using M4. I hope my post carry some weight....

Thanks :)

P.S. I don't post on forums often, leading to the Wall of texts. I hope the art of forum posting will come in time!

Comments

  • P4prik4P4prik4
    First Assault Rep: 2,520
    Posts: 474
    Member
    edited July 17
    I personally like the way it fires and would like it to serve more as a template for the other weapons, rather than say have the KHX be the standard.
    That is to say I thought it was fine up until this recent crouch low accuracy firing was added out of the blue not so long ago which single handedly ruined the M4.
  • WeilanWeilan
    First Assault Rep: 1,360
    Posts: 119
    Member
    edited July 17
    I have this mindset that whatever is default, I need to get rid of it ASAP and get anything else, as long as it's not the default. This has nothing to do with many games having M4A1 as their default weapon, even if something unique and rare like Type 95 is the default, I will want to get rid of it too and even get the M4A1 as long as it's not the default.
  • P4prik4P4prik4
    First Assault Rep: 2,520
    Posts: 474
    Member
    edited July 17
    @Weilan perhaps, but if the m4a1 worked fine, you'd see more people use it, and if the weapons were properly designed, you'd likely see it more on certain maps or for certain playstyles.
    after you'll played a while this sort of superstitious behavior would not last.
    As you would come to learn that this game does not follow in the footsteps of other p2w games. Or should not at least.
    If GITS wanted to go p2w they are going about it so so terribly wrong anyways, so that isn't their goal I don't see why the M4 should be any lesser of a weapon than the others.
    I think the best model should be pay to experience and unlock more content.
    Skins and competitive is where they should aim to make their money like counter strike does.
    However in order to get competitive I think the amount of cheese in this game needs to be looked into, as the way the weapons and abilities are currently gives the game too a low skill cap at pro levels of play.
  • iiShaniiShan
    First Assault Rep: 4,245
    Posts: 475
    Member
    edited July 17
    Honestly before the M4 got messed up, it was one of my favorites. Still is a favorite to some of my friends, even now.

    I do agree that the base weapons you unlock need to compete with the market weapons, however without being OP. I own every shotgun and I can say the ICS is still hands down my favorite (At least until I test them out in the new update more) because of the damage output vs fire rate. You can argue the semi-auto shotgun can outperform with a CBD and the right range, but the ICS is a cheaper alternative that, if used right, can net you quite a few kills. Same should be with the M4 in my opinion, reliable at first but if you have the cash, can reach out and experiment with new weapons.
  • M4PLAYERM4PLAYER
    First Assault Rep: 725
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited July 17
    It's really true that many people usually do away with the default weapons as their play time increases. I think that is fine and it is part of the game to try out other guns and it's contents. I just think the default weapon should not be any "less" than those other guns just because it is a default weapon. Currently, in a 1 vs 1 gun fight vs other AR (AK, KHX, Seburo, Scar...etc) , (short range, mid range, long range) in all three cases, unless I get the first headshot, M4 usually loses. This is because of the sudden kickback after the first 2 and then moving even slightly causes increase in bloom. M4's bullets stray from where you aim.(Short-mid range)
    At long range, it is usually a battle for the headshot but M4's first shots are not always accurate. It sometimes stray to the left or right even while you are stationary.

    I just think that M4 is underpowered in all stats and a slight buff to just one of the stats (stability, accuracy or range of effectiveness or damage) would really help it compete against other guns

    @ P4prik4 Thanks for the info! I didn't know that patch since I just came back. I also noticed this too but I thought this was part of the game. I also agree with you in how M4 currently fires! One of the reason why I am still sticking with M4. I just wish it to perform well as when the game was initially released but I heard that even during then the guns weren't very balanced either).
    iiShan
  • RektifiedRektified
    First Assault Rep: 1,255
    Posts: 77
    Member
    edited July 17
    Weilan wrote: »
    I have this mindset that whatever is default, I need to get rid of it ASAP and get anything else, as long as it's not the default. This has nothing to do with many games having M4A1 as their default weapon, even if something unique and rare like Type 95 is the default, I will want to get rid of it too and even get the M4A1 as long as it's not the default.

    Thats probably due to the influence of consumption addictive behavior of our western society^^

    For me M4 only felt weak after the hs multiplier patch . Before I did always really well with it and even prefered over K22 and many other guns. It was like my middle rof choice between KH and Famas. But probably mostly due to the reason that I had a 0.45 hs rate with it. So feeling of the gun is quite alright, it now just lacks a bit of damage I think. At least they fix the spread and crouch bug with 2.0 and hopefully it also gets a bit buffed when they finally start to make a real weapon rebalancing patch.
  • M4PLAYERM4PLAYER
    First Assault Rep: 725
    Posts: 12
    Member
    edited July 17
    Another thing I noticed with M4 is that it's accuracy with the first 2~4 shots. With M4, sprinting then zooming in and burst fire of 3 shots and repeating the process for the entire clip shows that the shots are not very accurate. Some of the shots are all over the place. Also, as you go through the clip, the gun's recoil gets worse and shot pattern is not consistent.

    I tested with other AR and SMG in the shooting range. SMG guns are mostly almost on point and tells that zoom in completely fixes the 'widened crosshair' and makes the first few shots very accurate. This sprint-burst has consistent results with shots almost on the point. Similar behaviour is shown in AR as well while the third or 4th shots are not always on the point, they are very near your aim.

    Perhaps there is something more to the M4 recoil/coding in addition to the crouch bug.
  • VeldrinVeldrin
    First Assault Rep: 2,520
    Posts: 301
    Member
    edited July 18
    The M4 was the most stable assault rifle, you could jump and strafe and it was still accurate enough, you could even spray and range was not that bad, precision in tap firing good enough as well. only downsize the rate of fire. But it is not too slow, just KHX for example is a broken gun. The ruined it with the bug and did not manage to fix it in SEVERAL months. I doubt we will see a fix in the next months. Because skins and 2.0 is more important than balancing, bug fixing and netcode. 2.0? yes i highly doubt it will fix anything.
    Dividesbyzer0