[Renewal 2.0] MEGA THREAD: Feedback/Compensation

PuffyHuffPuffyHuff
First Assault Rep: 2,185
Posts: 58
Administrator, Nexon
edited July 18 in Suggestions and Feedback
We want to hear from you! With this recent update, there have been BIG changes and it's important to know how these changes affect the community. Use this thread to give us any feedback and suggestions. If you've already made a post, feel free to toss the link in here.

Read the 'Guidelines for posting suggestions and feedback' here before adding yours here.
http://forums.firstassault.nexon.net/discussion/3635/guide-for-posting-suggestions-feedback#latest

COMPENSATION:
Renewal is here! Unlock that extra Operative or Weapon.
Play one dive match and receive a 250,000GP voucher. Now Live!


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Comments

  • ForestWolfForestWolf
    First Assault Rep: 2,715
    Posts: 179
    Member+
    edited July 20
    Greetings,

    I left GitS since September 2016. I dived few matches in December after an update but since the core gameplay did not change, i quit the game.
    This weekend I had the chance of testing Ghost 2.0 on the PTS server and since I still would like to see GitS thrive and finally receive the feedback it deserves (after fixing the issues of course), I will provide my full PTS experience and feedback in this thread and update it, once I have the time to write it all down.

    1.0 User Interface
    Overall I think the user interface has not changed much, but it looks "cleaner". You have less menus in the overview, most functions are shown after clicking on something, like the sub-menus on operative.

    1.1 Operatives UI
    The operatives UI feels at the moment a bit empty - like you are planning to implement far more operatives. The sub-menus accesible when clicking on an operative do need their time getting used to. Its unusual, that each operator needs own weapon configuration, but I think with time this solution is better than having global weapon setups for all operatives of one class. The function for buying weapons and chip sockets directly is also far better than having to switch to marketplace to select them single handed.

    1.2 Friends & Party
    I do not quite understand why you implemented a party window in the friends tab, since it has no functions. You cannot leave party there or give lead to another player - everything is accesible through top ribbon bar on the main UI. Either implement functions there or get rid of it.

    1.3 Dive Window
    It is nice, that during the dive waiting you can still adjust your operatives and loadouts, the matchmaking is looking more like modern MOBA style with a timer running in the background. An improvement would be a message informing that a match has been found with an "Accept" and "Deny" buttons on a 20 seconds count-down. If you do not accept, your slot in the dive match is not reserved anymore and another players can join. It is a common feature in any competetive game like CS:GO, LoL, Smite, etc.
    I also like the new view on players inside the dive room and the downgrade to 6v6 instead of 8v8.

    1.4 Rooms
    To be honest, I liked the old custom room UI more, at least so far I did not understand in the new which players is already ingame, which is not and where the match settings are. Worst change to the custom rooms UI is the lack of ability of changing operative loadouts. I did not see a possibility to change the operatives I am using for the loadout or their weapons from a custom room. So far it seems you have to leave the room to adjust your loadout and that is a no-go change. Implement a way to be able to change loadout while in custom room lobby or change the UI back to the old one.

    2.0 Gameplay and Combat
    The clunky combat combined with retarded netcode and broken hitboxes have been the main reason why player numbers have been dwelling for more than 6 months in a row. I am glad they adjusted it in Ghost 2.0, but I do not understand why they did not post any of changes made to hitboxes, netcode and weapon balancing. We definetely need exact patch notes like you posted when going Open Beta, so the players can understand the weapon behaviour better and distinguish new features from bugs or broken implementation.
    Overall I enjoyed the combat in 2.0 and glad they finally made a move in this direction.

    2.1 Netcode
    I have to admit, that the netcode felt almost completely fixed. It definetely felt fun to finally be able to slip out of cover, snipe 1-2 enemies and hide behind cover again and not die seconds after from slow or broken hit registration.

    2.1.1 Rubber banding
    As part of the negative feedback about the netcode, I encountered some rubber-banding, especially when jumping over obstacles or when colliding with something. Its like the game is not sure, it registered your movement so you get set back a small distance. Imagine jumping from the top sniper platform on PSS9 and suddenly getting rubber-banded back up again. Thats how sometimes it felt. Gladly, it did not appear a lot, most of the cases were connected either with obstacles or getting pushed by other players (especially enemies running into you).

    2.1.2 Dying behind walls
    In about 10 matches I did, there were 2 matches where I died few times behind cover but with only a small delay after being shot and few cases of enemy dropping 0,5-1 second after I fired my shot from a sniper. It could be server hick-ups because the PTS is not set-up for this amount of players that were online, could be that the netcode still has its flaws, however, it felt good enough for being able to play it on a competetive level. So if these rare cases also get fixed, the netcode would be absolutely definetely suitable for ESL and other tournaments.

    2.2 Hitboxes
    The hitboxes felt much better aswell. Im sure that this feeling is based upon the mix of weapon adjustments, character adjustments but also I did not encounter the so called "ghost shots", where a bullet tended to fly towards an enemy you were not even aiming at. During the matches I have seen less headshots than before 2.0 and that is a good sign. The hits definetely registered where they were supposed to and at the right time. I have not encountered any issues where shooting in the air would hit an enemy or vice versa, where shooting an enemy would result in not hitting him.

    2.3 Performance
    Sadly, performance was the biggest technical issue for me and multiple friends during the PTS tests. While in old GitS my system was able to handle 100+ FPS (with frame drops that I discussed in other threads), on PTS my system was mostly around 60 FPS only on medium graphic settings. There were no bigger frame drops like last year, but instead there were mini-freezes where it felt like skipping a heartbeat and unfortunately in some matches it happened constantly, so that I could say each 10 seconds I would have this mini-freezes. I do not think that my system is too bad since im playing KF2 and BF1 on high details without any problems, and on top of that players like Hackception, that bought a new 1,5k € system also encountered these freezes while having 200+ FPS. Again, it could be connected to the PTS server that possibly was not prepared for the load of players. However, if this problem persists later on the live server when the patch drops, it will definetely impact the feedback you will receive into negative direction and will have influence on competetive gameplay aswell.

    2.4 TTK and combat
    The time to kill and generel combat feeling is in a sweet spot in Ghost 2.0. Finally SMGs felt like close combat quick weapons, while ARs hold their best in mid range. It did not feel like you instantly die when the enemy just looks at your because the overall survivability of assault and support classes has been increased. There were quite some firefights where the enemy started shooting me first and still lost because their weapon handling and control was not good enough to kill in short time. Felt very satisfying to actually have fire fights where you actually survive first few bullets and can either hide behind cover or kill an enemy and where you have to aim instead of running around holding left mouse button down because everything dies instantly anyway.

    3.0 Balance
    The balanced between the weapons and operatives has been improved a lot, definetely due to the announced changes to the classes, but also due to non-announced changes to the weapons! Nexon has to provide all the patch notes for players to be able to dinstinguish between planned behaviour and bugs or unplanned changes.

    3.1 Class changes
    I really love the new 3 class system where you have to decide if you want to be tanky but slow assault, quick but squishy disturb or average based support player. It definetely adds more tactical depth to the game since you have to balance your team more and it got far harder to win with a full team of a single operative like it is in current version *cough, Motoko, cough*. I think however, they need to monitor closely which operative belongs to which class. In my opinion, Togusa should be switched to Disturb and Maven to Support classes.
    Further more the change to usable weapons should be reviewed after player's feedback. The player base is currently split in half, one side gets their weapon on most of their prefered operatives anyway (for example I like to use snipers and my most used operatives are Maven, Ishikawa and Saito; since I get to used snipers with Saito, im fine), while the other side are forced to play either a different operative or not their prefered weapon. I understand, that allowing all weapons on all operatives would cause heavy inbalanced in Ghost 2.0 (imagine Reiko with an MG that just mowes down multiple enemies from behind without running out of ammo), so we have maybe to find a smarter solution (surely some players will provide tricky suggestions).
    The new skill system worked well, since you can "spam" Lvl1 skill but that does not have much impact, while Tier 2 that do take some time to charge but without having a cooldown, resulting in good players charging their Tier 2 skill far more often. The charge over time should be disabled though - a player that does not actively participate in team fights or objectives, can still get T2 charge by standing in base. The intel gathered should be only from points a players makes - kill an enemy, plant a bomb, destroy enemy turret, etc, so automatical charge over time just feels misplaced in the game.
    Tier 1 charging feels a bit too quick, I would suggest adding another 10 seconds to it's cooldown.

    The class balance feels like a trinagle at the moment - Support characters with snipers mostly can take out Assault guys in one shot, while Disturb due to their speed, sliding and quick weapons are good counter to Support and Assaults can take few hits from Disturb and still survive it. If this system was intended, then it worked out well.

    3.1.1 Assault
    I could notice the ad- and disadvantages of being Assault right away - slow but tanky with mostly skills that support such playstyle of being the target for enemies. Both the rocket launcher and turret take their time placing/firing right, so its nice to see you can actually take few hits while doing it. Borma and Azuma are the guys to charge in so this role is filled out nice.

    3.1.2 Disturb
    Finally Paz and Motoko have been made more squishy as they should be. Disturb classes feel really quick from the base speed, so they need to be monitored with speed sockets if it wont break something (animation, movement, balanced due to reachable positions). The slide ability helps a lot against static players and snipers, while the tanks mostly wont care that much about slide. The animations feel smooth so far, but it was absolutely disruptive that players can push others with the slide. This gives such a huge opportunity for trolls, that I dont want to know how playing a Support with a sniper gonna feel when you have 3 Motokos next to you jump/slide-pushing you.

    3.1.3 Support
    The support classes have been given a double-jump possibility, but at the moment I have not found any serious purpose for it. Sniping while jumping is not accurate, so you cannot rely on jump shots while most spots reachable by double jump are reachable with other classes aswell. Sadly, most spots that look like they should work are blocked by invisible walls, so it really makes no sense at the moment double jumping.

    Here is a screenshot where you cannot jump on as a support:
    http://imgur.com/P8zcNWl
    On the other side of the buiding you can jump with any class:
    http://imgur.com/ZUELVio
    My question is simple: why is the first spot not accesible for support? There is no need for an invisible wall since it wont break any balance or cause any map issues if support can jump on such spots.

    Another example on how double-jump should be usable:
    http://imgur.com/4PvX8F3
    Sadly, there is invisible wall on top of this metal cover, so you cannot jump over it. So far, on all the maps I found like 3 spots where double-jump had a few seconds advantage of reaching a spot compared to other classes and that so far is not advantage enough compared to having more HP or speed. Either give support classes a new ability that makes more sense or increase the number of spots which they can reach by deleting the invisible walls over time.

    3.2 Old Operatives
    3.2.1 Saito
    Saito felt in a sweet spot. Tier 1 skill ticks only one time, showing you the current position of the enemy once but you cannot distinguish if and where they are moving, neither does it feel like a "wallhack" as it did in current FA. It seems though as if sockets work only for Tier 2 skill, since the +1 tick socket does not work on Tier 1. Is it intended?

    3.2.2 Togusa
    Togusa is played more aggresively since his drones point the way to the enemies and can be planted around corners. This gives a big advantage when you are one of the engagers and currently Togusa is set up in Support characters, meaning he stands in the back with a sniper and planting the drones mostly doesnt have any impact on the game at all or the drones even self-explode before reaching an enemy. He definetely should be switch to Disturb that would fit his playstyle far better. Besides that, the speed increase on Tier 2 drones is welcome, sadly they still take too long time to explode so once the drones go up in the air, you still can run away without taking any damage. This should be adjusted so they explode 0,2 - 0,5 seconds quicker, so if you react quick you maybe dont die, but at least take some damage.

    3.2.3 Motoko
    Motoko is not that effective as in current version anymore, since it takes mostly longer to kill enemies, especially assault characters and that is a welcome change and might lower down the Motoko spam we've seen in last months. Tier 1 skill is lasting only few seconds that may be enough for slipping past a sniper, but does not break any balance as it did in current version.

    3.2.4 Batou
    Batou so far felt a bit underpowered since his Tier 1 skill does not do enough damage on a player to kill him and Maven's wall, Azuma's shield or Ishikawas turret can take it without even moving their HP bar slightest. Batou should be made a counter to static classes, so it is fine that his rocket does not one-shot kill even on direct hit, but it should definetely do increased damage to static skills like the barrier and turret. Make the Tier 1 rocket take at least half of Tier 1 shield and turret HP so that Batou is taken as a counter to other operatives.
    A bug I noticed with Batou is that his rockets tend to go "invisible" in mid air - I mostly encountered it with enemy Batous that based on their animation fire a rocket but that I never saw until it exploded somewhere.

    3.2.5 Ishikawa
    The turrent has been buffed a lot and that is a good change since Ishikawa was mostly underplayed operative. Tier 1 turret should be left with 180 degree angle though, while Tier 2 can have 360 degree. Providing ammo on Tier 2 skill is also a nice change and gives the turret some more utility besides shier fire power. Tier 1 turret's HP should be kept in review though since I saw some turrets taking multiple magazines hits and still standing with enough HP to take more. Now imagine Maven's barrier that blocks grenades and a turret behind it - it will simply be OP on TC or some Demo maps where you cant destroy the turret with grenades and it eats all your ammo while you cannot even get behind it, so make the T1 turret a bit more squishy.

    3.2.6 Paz
    Paz similar to Motoko has been placed in a niche thats fitting him well. A quick character for disturbing others and the changes making him more squishy are well placed. So far he did not feel any OP or UP, so keep it.

    3.2.7 Borma
    Borma definetely befinited from the Ghost 2.0 changes a bit too much. Combined with the already heavy 200 HP and 150 armor, Borma with Tier 2 skill is almost unkillable unless to a headshot series. I had multiple fights where I took damage from 3 or more enemies, killed one, retreated, healed up in seconds and gone in again. His role as a tank will be already fulfilled when you leave him with this HP amount but slow down his regeneration to something like 20 per second, at the moment its more like 100+ per second. You dont want to have a character where enemies run out of ammo before being able to kill him. As stated, my suggestion is lowering the renegeration while leaving the max. HP amount so he can still fill his tank role but without being able to re-engage multiple times during one skill use.

    3.2.8 Maven
    I like the changes to Maven's barrier a lot. If noticed correctly, it has been increased in size and the grenades now get bounced off while enemies that run through get either stunned or slowed. It puts Maven into a great defender role, so I do not quite understand why she is placed as Disturb operative, she needs to be a Support operative since this fits her defensive gameplay and team role far better. Basically switch her place with Togusa and you get the wanted result.

    3.2.9 Kuro
    I have not personally placed Kuro, but here is the feedback from Sektion9 players that did enjoy him during the weekend:
    the changes to his charge are nice, since Kuro will have more impact now that we gonna see more turrets, drones, shields and Tier 2 skills have been buffed. Kuro, as a counter to almost all other operatives will make it possible to take positions that enemy defended by turrets, barriers or counter some heavy skillers like Saito or Borma that hide in known spots. However there is still a suggestion to make his EMP work like a grenade that you can throw since placing it has its disadvantages.
    I am not sure if Kuro is Assault or Disturb, but since placing the EMP in its current state takes a while, he definetely should be an Assault to be able to take few hits while aiming the EMP.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
    First Assault Rep: 2,715
    Posts: 179
    Member+
    edited June 19
    3.3 New Operatives
    3.3.1 Azuma
    Azuma feels insanely strong at the moment since he can protect not only himself, but also his teammates standing behind him giving a huge advantage on thin spots like banana on Geo or most corridors on PSS9. His Tier 2 shield can take multiple sniper shots damage before breaking and right after he can actvate his Tier 1, resulting in an insanely long and strong assault provided be Azuma. His balance definetely should be watched closely and a possible suggestion to changing his skill would be allowing of only Pistol use during his skill instead of his primary weapons. This would also increase the immersion since how is he holding a weapon if one hand has the shield?

    3.3.2 Reiko
    The so called "new Motoko". Reiko's ability is far too strong on Tier 2 because it is a combination of Saito's heat sensor and Motoko's invisibility (just in an even better version). It absolutely breaks the balance on Demolition and Elimination game modes because one Reiko mostly trades for multiple enemy opponents, getting behind them in the dive and suprisingly attacking from positions noone would be checking. Her ability should be changed that it either lasts less, or the enemy positions show only the position when the dive started, not where the enemies actually are. She is definetely the operative that felt most broken in Ghost 2.0

    3.3.3 Sitara
    Sitara is hard to judge since her drone ability on one hand disturbs enemies, especially snipers, but on the other hand barely does damage and is not sustaining as much as Ishikawas turret. I think the drone should be adjusted, that you can send it scouting and it would report enemy positions, maybe decrease the size of the drone so it does not get hit that easy. Besides that, the idea of a moving drone is nice.

    3.3 Weapons
    I wont go into single weapons that felt different than current version, but assault rifles aswell SMGs had far more recoil. You actually had to burst fire on range with most weapons to be still accurate after few shots, so no more rushing and spraying with SMGs and blindly hitting headshots over 50m+ range. It felt far more satisfying being able to win firefights because you can handle your weapon better and the enemy that just held the left mouse button down still lost. I have not tried shotguns so its hard to tell how they will perform after the overall TTK increase and if they will lose their place in the loadouts because enemies can take too many hits of if their weapon has being accordingly adjusted to the 2.0 changes.
    The snipers didnt feel any different, but pistols, the side-arms that sniping players have to use a lot definetely have been nerfed, or better said you need far more hits on the enemy to actually kill him. It is a welcome change, since in current FA the pistols killed enemies rather quick.

    The changes to the weapons felt really satisfying BUT Nexon has to post such notes officially and not let players figure out everything again and report things for broken before they actually start to post anything true. I remember the time when all snipers had the "same damage" while CM and Seburo did one-shot enemies, while L118 did not, so this time, please do it right from the start and post the actual weapon stats and overall changes.

    4.0 Game mods and maps
    There have been multiple changes to terminal conquest mode and some maps. Further more, the matches I have played were 6v6 and not 8v8 anymore. I like the downgrade in the number - it makes the combat more tactical, the choice and decisions matter more instead of just zerging the enemy. However, in custom rooms it should be possible to set up matches for 8v8. Leave the players to decide, which number the prefer in custom matches.

    Diving should also be done for different mode and not in generel and then you jump into one, you possibly did not want to play. I can't think of any other famous FPS or MOBA game, that has random dives - you always decide which mode you want to play. This is relient on the player base, but is definetely needed for the future.

    4.1 Elimination
    The new Elimination mode is simply Demolition without a bomb on the old TDM maps. It is simple, but effective - its fun to kill enemies not for uprising score, but in the last man standing principle. The mode is best suited for playing TDM where good players actually matter more than bad players - in TDM it is a lost cause if you have multiple feeders on your team, while in Elimination you can save the round by winning 1vx enemies, so that good players have more impact on the outcome than bad players.

    4.2 Terminal Conquest
    TC has been changed a lot. The area for capturing is insanely huge on most maps and it feels a bit too big on some. For example on District Ruins you are standing on the point below the strais leading to the C point, so you can be capturing it without even seeing the enemy once and this feels like broken, since the other team does not have such spots. I think the area has to be decrease by 1-2 fields from current size to make the fire fights happen not on the whole map, but actually in the zone around the terminal. Making your team look for an enemy hiding half across the map and still somehow standing on the terminal area is not fitting the tactical gameplay at all.

    4.3 Map Changes
    Overall I liked the changes made especially on District Ruins and Cyber Ward. The maps felt more clean, the famous spots have been left untouched while more disturbing objects are now out of the way. It remains to be seen how it impacts the balance, but from the feedback I heard about the maps, so far it works out well.

    5.0 ToDo for Nexon
    The ToDo list is in no particular order, since the points would need to be discussed and priorized by Nexon. I really hope Nexon will pay good attention here, since a lot of my previous suggestions about gameplay changes and new features has been implemented in Ghost 2.0 and receives positive feedback from a lot of players. The fact that I did take time testing, gathering the feedback from S9 clan and summarizing it up already shows that I only wish the best for this game and sadly, I do not have the hope Nexon will do the right things without our guidance.
    • Post full patch notes: it proved many times to be the right choice, aswell players figure out most of stuff with time themselves but do not enjoy it being kept secret or getting false information by the publisher.
    • Fix performance issues: the rubber banding and mini-lags have been reported by multiple players in Sektion9, some of them like Hackception having a brand new 1,5k € system that does not lag in any known game so far, while having problems in GitS. Sadly, FA is known for performance issues on each patch drop, but this time you need to get the Ghost 2.0 launch right and that is, performance clean.
    • Switch Maven with Togusa: Togusa is a more aggresive character fitting Disturb classes far more than Support, while Maven is the other way around - she supports her team by placing the shield and sniping from the back.
    • Adjust the operatives after review & feedback: as posted above, the balance on the operatives is still a bit off. While some feel in a sweet spot at the moment, some others (especially Reiko and Azuma) feel a bit off to the stronger scale of the weight. While Azuma should be monitored, I am sure that Reiko will receive the most negative feedback about her being OP.
    • Roll out the patch to live after made adjustments as soon as possible: the player numbers on current version are dwelling and especially after such a number of players that give good feedback about PTS, the live server will become even more of a ghost town. It would be wise to roll out the patch as soon as possible after you fixed reported bugs and adjusted the balance aswell some functions as described above.
    • Marketing: when 2.0 is ready, you need to a clean name again since Gits FA is known for its bad quality netcode, hitboxes, bugs and inbalanced. Advertisement in steam would help a lot to get a nice player income after launching 2.0, especially if you can post lines from famous PC games magazines in your ad. If you dont create a new image for GitS, most people will never get to know about Ghost 2.0 changes.
    • Implement two of the most requested features: clan system and ranking / ladder system. Some players have noticed that a clan chat tab was already added, so the hopes are high that the clan system will reach us with Ghost 2.0, but so far nothing is officially announced. You need to have clans either with 2.0 launch or short after, there is no way around. Your community has been waiting for it for more than a year and people know its already there by proven information, so get clan ASAP: The ranking / ladder system would not only increase the flow of comptetetive players to this game, but also provide long term goals besides leveling up. Comparing your imaginary d-size with others has been one of the most addictive features in gaming since the start, so make some use of it.
    • Use PTS further for frequent testing: making one huge drop in 1 year is not enough! The IT world and especially video games constantly change and shift and you need to adjust yourself with time. Getting your community into regular testing of balance changes, content drops and new features is the best way to make sure, the game is being developed in the right direction. Using PTS more would not only provide you with more feedback, but also keep the player base on its toes for upcoming changes and new content, so its a double benefit.
    • Create a new tutorial, that will allow new players to grasp the 3 class system, its features (like sliding and double-jumping) and limitations (like which operatives and weapons to use on which class), the "new" skill system (Tier 1 skill recharging, Tier 2 needs intel), game modes, operatives, etc.

    This kind of list is never finished and should get constantly updated, but the generel direction should be clear to the publisher.

    Summary
    I gathered the feedback from most of Sektion9 players, that could participate in PTS tests including Hackception, DonRyoHelix, Hilli and lots of others. The feedback so far has been rather positive - most of players are suprised how well the TTK and generel combat feels now in Ghost 2.0. The netcode and hitboxes feel far better than in current version. The changes done to the Terminal Conquest and maps in generel are welcome, even if they have to be adjusted a bit. The new operatives feel so far stronger than most and Azuma and Reiko quickly became new "main chars" for most of players. So most players are hyped for Ghost 2.0 and put their last hope for this huge patch and dont want to play the current version anymore since it feels now much more broken after we've seen how it is done right.
    So fix the reported issues, make some adjustments and push the patch to the live server. Main issues for us has been so far the performance and we really hope, that the live server wont suffer any negative impact from this patch considering netcode, hitreg and performance.
    InCepTioN_HilliOniHarusame
  • AnduAndu
    First Assault Rep: 5,225
    Posts: 1,167
    Member+
    edited June 19
    I dont agree to the netcode and hitreg - youre totally wrong. I have very stable connection but you can find in my gameplay since Decenber 2016 one big regress - but I belive its not cause Im worse player or my enemies are better but its simply caused by bad netcode, because in game ping says everything is OK (15-17ms) but Im playing noticeably worse - and things I hate most is the "instant deaths" looks like enemy know where I am for a long time before I run from the safe places, 1:1 situations i mostly lose 70%. But....

    There are moment and hours when im playing with the same players I lost badly and I can beat them (not a single match but few in a row). But that situations happens not so often. For example yesterday I had moments with 2-3 better matches in a row.

    So dont treat me as a noob player who wrongly complain about netcode - there is something truth in that Im saying. I think I have doomed ISP or network between my ISP and Datacenter where EU server is.

    About netcode: Solution is required.
    FrancTireurCH
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
    First Assault Rep: 2,715
    Posts: 179
    Member+
    edited June 19
    Andu wrote: »
    About netcode: Solution is required.
    So far everyone with who I played during PTS said that the netcode is far better than on live servers. I died only few times behind walls and not like on live, where it happens half of the time. I dont feel like enemies shoot me before they show up on my screen, so from my point of view and that is supported by most of S9 clan, netcode is far better in Ghost 2.0
  • AnduAndu
    First Assault Rep: 5,225
    Posts: 1,167
    Member+
    edited June 19
    If everything is fine then explain why I cant play it like months ago? And explain also moments when I can play for hours without that issues. Then everything goes back to hell...

    I still have issues I described, and even if 99% of players says they have no issues it doesnt change the fact I have that issues.
    Im glad at least most of you can play, I wish i could.

    Never mind - forget it see you in game in next 3-4 months.... I lost my desire to play that crap.
    FrancTireurCH
  • HilliHilli
    First Assault Rep: 2,290
    Posts: 168
    Member+
    edited June 19
    Andu wrote: »
    I dont agree to the netcode and hitreg - youre totally wrong. I have very stable connection but you can find in my gameplay since Decenber 2016 one big regress - but I belive its not cause Im worse player or my enemies are better but its simply caused by bad netcode, because in game ping says everything is OK (15-17ms) but Im playing noticeably worse - and things I hate most is the "instant deaths" looks like enemy know where I am for a long time before I run from the safe places, 1:1 situations i mostly lose 70%. But....

    I felt so too in actual Version, but on the PTS it felt so smove and direct to me and I had a ping between (15-21ms). Only on Suturday I had a few lags, but it was the only day I record games and I think at this test were more poeple online than on Friday and Sunday it could be a server issue.
  • AnduAndu
    First Assault Rep: 5,225
    Posts: 1,167
    Member+
    edited June 20
    well My previous post was a bit too agressive but I was tired defending my opinion. The thing is - most of you you may not having issues with gameplay like me - but that doesnt change the fact Im having issues that lasts 6 months, and that pissed me off badly.
  • sihan416sihan416
    First Assault Rep: 980
    Posts: 29
    Member
    edited July 14
    I played many tactical shooters as well as first assault on and off since the very beginning. Since a the update 2.0 means Neople is actually tying to improve the game, I like to pop off some suggestions. These suggestions will be around core game mechanics rather than fairly low impact stuff like skins and cybercrates.

    First, practical implementable suggestions at current. The most crucial thing in a tactical shooter should be the necessity of planning and coordination, which is fundamentally lacking in this game. I'm sure many people have referred to Ghost Recon Phantom as an example, the Neople team should take the best of what that game offered and transfer it into this game. So what do I mean?
    • First I would recommend increasing player health (more than 2.0 already did), it should never be the case that knee jerk reactions get more kills than planned assaults. I see that 2.0 is heading in the right direction for this, but I feel all operatives should require 5+ chest shots to kill from an AR and 7+ for SMG, and then scale various operative health.
    • Transition time between running and shooting should be increased so the game is no longer always run when you don't see an enemy to making it a serious gamble.
    • Hip fire effectiveness should be reduced, either increasing spread or recoil, tactical should naturally reward aimed fire which currently the game does not, from my experience, especially because of the current map design of excessive close corners.
    • Introduce prone, I know this issue has been raised before, but I think this would go well with the mobility changes in 2.0.
    • Add link lines, like in Ghost Recon Phantoms, there were lines between team members in close proximity, this meant one was aware of how many teammates were supporting them at a time without having to look around, this also gives a good general idea of where teammates in close proximity were without having to look at the minimap. Everyone in first assault has had the experience where you knee jerked and shot at a teammate you ran into around a corner, this should not happen.
    • The abilities revamp in 2.0 are a bit disappointing, I would say they are now merely more powerful, not more tactical. I would really have like something that innately promote team effort, for example, optical camo and nano gel armor only works when staying around the player that activated it instead of simply syncing skills and then everyone running off in their own direction. I understand this particular suggestion is hard to implement in turns of balance but this should be where the goal is set.

    Next, couple of suggestions that I wish would happen but are likely not going to.
    • Turn this game into a third person shooter. Seriously so many of the current mechanics do not work well in first person because of visibility. Really should have gone with the ghost recon style of third person hip fire and first person ADS.
    • Ability to truly enter/exit cover, this does not necessarily require the game to be third person when running around, it is possible to do a deus ex like system where the camera moves to third person in clover.

    There's also a miscellaneous feedback bit, please fix the 4k resolution scaling.
    SaintR
  • P4prik4P4prik4
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    edited July 14
    I absolutely love third person shooters, however if there's one game I would not have be third person its FA.
    Seing over the side of walls while standing hidden behind them would turn this game into a clown fiesta.
    having to be exposed when seeing a cloaked motoko makes a big difference and will allow motoko to likely catch you off guard, being able to see what's happening around walls would hurt motoko too much. As well as hurt snipers.
    The game is campish enough as it is.



    I do agree ttk / heroes need more hp. personnally I would adjust limb damage and head shots damage (reducing the lethal portion of a headshot hitbox, though would depend on the weapon, close range shotguns and snipers would have the same hitbox as current).
  • sihan416sihan416
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    edited July 14
    I don't know if you played ghost recon phantoms, it's shut down now, but you should take a look at the old videos on youtube, in practice third person based cover works better from a tactical stand point. How the balance worked there was being in cover made sniper rifles more accurate and stable, and yes, people could see you if you are actually just staring out of your scope instead of hiding behind of cover. But don't we all hate camping snipers with one shot sniper rifles? This way snipers must be better at pulling out of cover and pulling off shots quickly instead of the current crouched camping behind a barrier that happens so much now. Furthermore this allows snipers to more effectively hide than at current only popping out when a viable target is visible and would heavily discourage camping.
    The comment about the cloak is true, but the whole idea of a "tactical" game is to reward planning and patience. My main gripe about FA is it currently is still basically a twitch shooter. If a cloaked motoko charges someone in cover, the motoko should die (that is my opinion, because I think the unavoidable cloaked assassination from the front is BS, especially since it's not uninterruptible by teammates) this ties into another suggestion, the cloak visuals to be more invisible, at current they are far too easy to see except in extremely unsuspecting circumstances. The balancing changes would be quite difficult which is why I put it under the likely not going to happen list. Basically what would need to happen in that case is Saito would need to get buffed to counter the more invisible Motoko, I always thought Saito should highlight enemies for the team rather than have the sync skill on tier 2. Overall the effect would be slower more methodic game play where situational awareness is more important. The current big problem with motoko is a lot of times they stack cloak and hyper sprint and then just rush with melee since frontal assassinations are guaranteed kills (you can actually see the right click spam with the multiple failed stabs before assassination connects) , this should not be a viable tactic..
  • KnightLDRKnightLDR
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    edited July 15
    One of the things I saw in the CBT is that the longer TTK means that weapons use up a lot more ammo then before and since you can only pick up guns from your class you can end up without a main weapon, not because of careless use but because you're using them as intended...

    Increasing all weapons' standard ammo by 2 full reloads would help a lot, SMGs in particular which run out pretty fast.
  • HakureiHakurei
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    edited July 15
    You are incorrect, you CAN pick up weapons from the ground that don't belong to your class.
    Also Ishikawa turrets now replenish ammo.
    Therefore i do not think its as bad as you say here.
  • KnightLDRKnightLDR
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    edited July 15
    Are you certain? While I played in the CBT I killed Assault classes and they didn't even drop their guns while I played Motoko, I thought this was intended.

    So our total ammo will remain the same on the notion that every team will have an Ishikawa sentry out to replenish our guns when empty? Isn't that a bit naive?
  • HakureiHakurei
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    edited July 15
    I played all 3 days from start to end last PTS session and yes i could pick up every weapon as any class (also saw their MGs or ARs lying on the floor as Reiko which is the same Disturb class as Motoko).
    Personally i had no problem with ammo.
  • KnightLDRKnightLDR
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    edited July 15
    I see, it could be a latency issue or some other bug, but I remember emptying a mag on a shielded Azuma, going to pick up his gun and there was nothing there, same with an Ishikawa I killed.

    The guns might have fallen in another room or through the floor, it was one of the new maps both times.

    What gun did you use. did it have a drum ? Maybe I'll have to pick up the extra mag or drum option on my guns now.
  • HakureiHakurei
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    edited July 15
    Hmm might indeed be a bug.
    We should monitor it when 2.0 arrives next week.

    I used the Kap3w mostly, but as you maybe know that gun will be reclassified as a PDW for the Support class.
    I did use a drum mag with it as i feel it helps against the higher TTK and durable people like Borma+Azuma.
  • HilliHilli
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    edited July 15
    sihan416 wrote: »
    [*] First I would recommend increasing player health (more than 2.0 already did), it should never be the case that knee jerk reactions get more kills than planned assaults. I see that 2.0 is heading in the right direction for this, but I feel all operatives should require 5+ chest shots to kill from an AR and 7+ for SMG, and then scale various operative health.

    Increasing the health turn the game more in the right of a Heroshooter, much people were feared about this before they played on the PTS. The game is a good mix of FPS and TS
    the key is to cover your teammates and help them if they are in trouble, communication is more important than now too say your team if somebody is behind and start coordinate engages , retreating and waiting for your team is also more effective than starting alone a gunfight against the half enemy. It's not you are chanceless in situations like this, but as team is every single person stronger.
    On the PTS the people start to run toghether in TDM and if you played against ego player heroes you totally rekted them.
    sihan416 wrote: »
    [*] Transition time between running and shooting should be increased so the game is no longer always run when you don't see an enemy to making it a serious gamble.

    Yeah I like a a readytime system, because of the same reason you said. That's not happend in 2.0, but the spread incredible high if you run. Running as Assault in a gunfight is the dumbest thing you can do. Infiltrators have a very fast movement, they have to run and come close to the enemies, because thier weapons are only in very short range effective.


    sihan416 wrote: »
    [*] Hip fire effectiveness should be reduced, either increasing spread or recoil, tactical should naturally reward aimed fire which currently the game does not, from my experience, especially because of the current map design of excessive close corners.

    Hip fire is much nerfed, the recoil is very high and the spread is very fast very high. What you can do is to learn the spreadpattern of each weapon. The spreads doesn't have a clear pattern like in CSGO , but always the same way.
    sihan416 wrote: »
    [*] Introduce prone, I know this issue has been raised before, but I think this would go well with the mobility changes in 2.0.

    I think prone wouldn't work well in this game, but maybe I am wrong.

    sihan416 wrote: »
    [*] Add link lines, like in Ghost Recon Phantoms, there were lines between team members in close proximity, this meant one was aware of how many teammates were supporting them at a time without having to look around, this also gives a good general idea of where teammates in close proximity were without having to look at the minimap. Everyone in first assault has had the experience where you knee jerked and shot at a teammate you ran into around a corner, this should not happen.
    [*] The abilities revamp in 2.0 are a bit disappointing, I would say they are now merely more powerful, not more tactical. I would really have like something that innately promote team effort, for example, optical camo and nano gel armor only works when staying around the player that activated it instead of simply syncing skills and then everyone running off in their own direction. I understand this particular suggestion is hard to implement in turns of balance but this should be where the goal is set.
    [/list]

    I like the lines and teamsupport system of GRP. They would in this game for newbies helpfull, but players with experience will stay close to thier team because teamplay is the Key to win.
    My suggestion : In the cases of Saito, Motoko, Borma and Paz could the lines show the maximum range of the skillsync radius, if you stay to far away or the host died the
    skillsync ends. Every player can only do one skillsync to the same skill and delete the minimum of max 3 skillsyncs.
    sihan416 wrote: »
    • Turn this game into a third person shooter. Seriously so many of the current mechanics do not work well in first person because of visibility. Really should have gone with the ghost recon style of third person hip fire and first person ADS.
    • Ability to truly enter/exit cover, this does not necessarily require the game to be third person when running around, it is possible to do a deus ex like system where the camera moves to third person in clover.

    A coversystem in First person could be cool, but third person won't work in this game. GRP had abilities which were created for a third person shooter, thats not happend in GitS maybe Azuma can push with his shield ( small version of Aegis). If you want a game like GRP back, then check this Project:
    http://www.shadowsofsoldiers.com/forum

    The game has now a good foundation and only small changes which optimize the play experience will happen for example the line and skillsync system I wrote.
    What the game needs are elements to hold players. A clansystem and ranked modes are very important. If the game get popular enough to have tournaments, then need it a spectator mod for commentators. New content is a must have too, maps, mods and PvE. I think in the next months ( Year) will come lots of new maps, because the devs can now fokus them and don't have to spend all thier time for gameplay changes.
    avarake
  • sihan416sihan416
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    edited July 16
    I understand that FA is meant to be its own distinct game, but I watched the Ghost in the Shell animes, and quite frankly I don't feel like twitch shooting fits with the IP. I mean, section 9 isn't a mass infantry you chuck at the enemy and trade body count for body count, so fast deaths and twitch shooting seems very strange considering how serious Ghost in the Shell is.
    About the infiltrator needing to run up to people thing, I kinda think it should be possible to shoot during slide (don't know if this is the case), but still have them be affected by the same ready time otherwise, this would further promote use of the slide instead of causing it to be a skin deep mechanic that most players ignore.
  • WeilanWeilan
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    edited July 16
    Hakurei wrote: »
    You are incorrect, you CAN pick up weapons from the ground that don't belong to your class.
    Also Ishikawa turrets now replenish ammo.
    Therefore i do not think its as bad as you say here.

    We could always get one extra clip and make that "30 /90" into a "30 /120". I don't see anything bad in that.
    KnightLDRConePrismriver
  • P4prik4P4prik4
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    edited July 16
    I agree with a TTK increase we need more ammo., However I would only add say from 3 to 8 rounds or so depending on the weapon.
    For the sake of gameplay, restricting ammo to round numbers that are intergers of 5 is not good for the game.
    Gameplay > realism, especially if its not a big deal.

    You could even argue that in the future simply being able to cram as many ammo into a clip as they can would make sense and could care less about if the number is a round one or not

    Perfect example of this is ARMA the game follows too stricktly the confines of realism. https://www.projectargo.net/game is a new game that takes some elements of ARMA but makes it more about the gameplay and feel than realism. Even PUBG right now is in third person and allows you to see over corners. This is anything but realistic however some players like this. And PUBG is very successful atm.

    That said i'd like to see ammo with say 34 clip/mag size
    or like 36, 37, 42, 43, 31... you get the idea. In fact seeing a weapon with a flat 30 or 40 clip size could and should even be rare.
    KnightLDR