Weapon Tier List

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  • LAMBDA471LAMBDA471
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    edited June 17, 2016
    Hakurei
    Hakurei said:



    it certainly wasnt the most farfetched idea to try making a tier list with the available info. But since closed beta we have been guessing about what the stats actually mean and we concluded that they arent even complete (like-> moving accuracy is actually a stat not shown).
    A scale of 1-100 for all the stats is not clear enough, precise movementspeed value is unclear per weapon type and how fast is the base movementspeed to begin with.. etc. etc.
    It would be impossible to list all stats, and adding extra descriptions like "it feels like this and that" will sound kind of vague and unprofessional. I don't think that stats can get much better than what they really are, but at least the description should hint a little on what the weapon is like without sounding too personal and biased. For example the M4A1's description can be something like "A standard issue assault rifle for the American Emprie, renowned for it's overall reliability and accuracy." As the descriptions are now, they sound like a bad history lesson.
  • HakureiHakurei
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    edited June 17, 2016
    LAMBDA471
    LAMBDA471 said:

    Hakurei
    Hakurei said:



    it certainly wasnt the most farfetched idea to try making a tier list with the available info. But since closed beta we have been guessing about what the stats actually mean and we concluded that they arent even complete (like-> moving accuracy is actually a stat not shown).
    A scale of 1-100 for all the stats is not clear enough, precise movementspeed value is unclear per weapon type and how fast is the base movementspeed to begin with.. etc. etc.
    It would be impossible to list all stats, and adding extra descriptions like "it feels like this and that" will sound kind of vague and unprofessional. I don't think that stats can get much better than what they really are, but at least the description should hint a little on what the weapon is like without sounding too personal and biased. For example the M4A1's description can be something like "A standard issue assault rifle for the American Emprie, renowned for it's overall reliability and accuracy." As the descriptions are now, they sound like a bad history lesson.

    Ye true that we shouldnt add vague stats. Though some people might think that adding a story to a weapon isnt of significance to the actual stats. (they cannot see it in numbers, so they think its just a bit of history)
    But accuracy loss while moving per shot, is actually not that weird of a stat.
    I know in Planetside 2 they used it and its easy to see if a wep is reliable to use while moving or not.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
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    edited July 12, 2016
    Updated with F-MAS and L86.
  • MidlordMidlord
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    edited July 12, 2016
    I disagree with the SC-AR 45 being so low. I unlocked it after buying the AK-47 and it made me regret the purchase, as I think it can perform, with the AK's playstyle I have felt it's very close. In that way, it just loses in damage, but that's usually not a noticeable difference (at least at my level). I think the reason for my disagreement comes from that playstyle for which your mods aren't the best. I haven't all the mods so I couldn't quite go for maximizing its stability; but since I use the drum magazine with it, I do have some stability modes (the bipod, the one while aiming), so when I tested it with all the mods for stability I do have and nothing that reduces it, I didn't feel it stable enough for spraying. I also feel its firing rate is too low to trust in a spread. If you do that I trust it's because you find it gives you enough to spray and closer quarters, of course; but I do feel that weapon is at its best for longer battles, aim down the sight and never do more than short bursts. I've sniped better with it than with the SA50 LOL.

    Used that way, the SC-AR 45 isn't far behind the AK-47 and in fact feels safer if you can get dragged in closer quarter fights, as it has a little higher fire rate which is noticeable and the recoil pattern (at least for me) is easier to control, so overall I think they're quite similar. AK-47 superior at mid-long range, the SC-AR 45 wins at closer range. For me it migh teven be tier A.
  • xochildxochild
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    edited July 13, 2016
    Whether you disagree or agree with the rating system, most of the top players (and others as well, of course) have commented in with their advice, so I'm moving this thread to Game Guides.
  • MidlordMidlord
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    edited July 13, 2016
    Yeah, just speaking from my experience.

    Also, it was quite late so I was sleepy and failed to add a few things:

    1. That it's not as much disagreement because of the tier, which by the criteria used it's probably the right one, but the description of "not bother with it". The SC-Ar 45 is worth trying, it's unlockable so it's cheap. At least if you're not strapped for cash and already have the Ak-47. But as by stats, yeah, it does appear very weak.

    2. That it's a very nice and helpful thread and therefore my thanks to ForestWolf for taking the time and effort of making it.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
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    edited July 20, 2016
    @Midlord: This list is not to state which weapons you should try, or which are more accessible because they are cheaper or quicker to unlock, or more "noob-friendly", but to state which weapons reach highest potential given you have the ressources and the skill to use them.

    Edited L1 sniper into D Tier after playing for some weeks with it. It has good reasons I'm the only crazy guy to try it out :P
    Moved UMP to A Tier. You can watch top players shred others with it in seconds, while having accurate firing, high headshot potential and still enjoying the quick movement of an smg.
    Moved SEO to B Tier after it became more popular and more players tried it out. Performs well with its damage and accurate fire bursts.
    HakureiMidlord
  • scikscik
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    edited July 20, 2016
    I wish they would buff the L11, at the moment everyone uses the CM2010 and plays with the exact playstyle which is boring and relatively easy to counter after you get used to how the weapon works. The L11 has the faster ROF out of the bolt actions but there's very little usage for it since you either die when you miss or you die when you hit someone and they survive, and this is at close range. The only advantage this has is taking out a group of enemies but when the weapon tags half the time it takes longer to kill everyone and you're probably dead by the time the first shot has tagged.

    Source: I've used the L11 for a good long while (1800+ kills) and I've unlocked everything on the weapon and this was before I tried out the CM.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
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    edited July 23, 2016
    scik
    scik said:

    I wish they would buff the L11, at the moment everyone uses the CM2010 and plays with the exact playstyle which is boring and relatively easy to counter after you get used to how the weapon works. The L11 has the faster ROF out of the bolt actions but there's very little usage for it since you either die when you miss or you die when you hit someone and they survive, and this is at close range. The only advantage this has is taking out a group of enemies but when the weapon tags half the time it takes longer to kill everyone and you're probably dead by the time the first shot has tagged.
    .
    I guess we will have to wait for the big OB patch and see how they changed snipers, weapon balance overall and the netcode having influence on the weapon choice and functionality.
    There is also a new sniper coming next patch *drooling*
    I am sure there will be a lot of rework needed on the list.
    Edited SA50 from C to B Tier. Being semi-automatic it is far stronger than people assume and you can one-shot multiple people in seconds allowing even kill streaks. Eastern EU gone epidemic SA50 after they got dominated for multiple rounds by a kill streacking sniper :D
  • noobstinenoobstine
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    edited July 23, 2016
    why would scar be in tier d its stats are relatively similar to m4a1 and it has more dmg than it
  • VenVen
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    edited July 24, 2016
    After reading through this a few times i'd like to add my input.

    Simply put. atleast in my opinion, grading the weapons is a very, very loose way of gauging the guns in terms of usability. EVERY gun in the game has some kind of use, and some uses doesn't apply to some players, scenarios and maps/gamemodes; where as some do.

    one example is the KRIS and the Scar being fiarly low in the list, which i have to disagree on.

    The Scar has little to no recoil, and fairly high damage. this make it amazing at longer ranges and for stationary fire, as compared to the AK47 which i find to have a might larger and much more random spray pattern than the SCAR. In other words you can fire longer bursts with the SCAR at longer ranges and land some hits, where as the AK47 needs shorter bursts as first shot accuracy is always king. It's for these reasons a lot of average or below average players like to use it, as it needs very little recoil control and can be spammed in long ranged engagements.

    The Kris... is a weird one. it really is.

    It has very low damage, a weird sense of accuracy as a few bullets in to a spray the sigh seems to wander off like a lazy eye in relation to where the bullets are going, and it chews through ammo like crazy... however i wouldn't call it useless.

    for example, much like the SCAR it has little recoil, infact the KRIS has basically no recoil at all. This makes it an amazing gun for the players that need to focus on practicing aiming instead of recoil control, if they're the kind of person that can't learn 2 things at once. also due to its high fire rate and accuracy, it can be quite useful to hit the enemy mulitple times and cause their screen to "flinch" when you get shot, which against some players will disorient them more than a much more calm and collected player.

    You may think im reading too much in to this, but there is a lot more to guns than simply the stats and how they perform, as mentioned before.

    one big elephant in the room is the LENGTH of the guns, no im not crazy, yes the length. some shorter guns like the MP5K and the KRIS are perfect for hiding in tight corners on certain demo maps, as longer guns like sniper rifles and LMGs, and even some ARs might stick around the corner and give away your position.

    i could go on for days about this kind of thing, but i think in conclusing i urge everyone to take this weapon tier list with a grain of salt, not every gun can be graded based off of its stats and how it performs, every gun has a purpose to someone out there, with all the different kind of playstyles, and strategic mechanics and implementations when it comes to other aspects of the gun, such as the length of the gun as mentioned, how obvious the gun shots sound, movement speed with said gun, aim speed, hipfire accuracy... the list goes on, not to mention litterally everything i just said can vary massively depending on what attactments you put on the gun and what kind of build you're going for. But those kind of things is for a more in-depth thread i think.

    Hakurei
  • VenVen
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    edited July 24, 2016
    ForestWolf



    Moved UMP to A Tier. You can watch top players shred others with it in seconds, while having accurate firing, high headshot potential and still enjoying the quick movement of an smg.

    ah so you saw me wrecking some faces with it xD

    in any case, i actually feel that the UMP is quite situational against equally skilled opponents.

    even with all of its damage mods, invluding the 2511-LB barrel which gives +2 to damage, it drops the enemy down to like 5 or 6 HP after 3 bullets, this has resulted in a lot of deaths to a guy with but a sliver of health left xD

    for comparison, most other SMGs kill in 4 hits, but have higher fire rate so actually have much better kill potential, atleast in close quarters compared to the UMP.

    for the reasons i've stated above i actually believe the UMP to be better suited for flanking maneuvers, as it can deal high damage after only a few shots so the opponent doesn't have enough time to react and turn around.
    its also good for dealing a lot of damage to enemies in order to finish them off, or to get them low for teammates to finish off, so its much less of a "solo" or head on confrontational weapon than you might think.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
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    edited July 24, 2016
    @Ven: you are not the only one using it :P
    But I also had my fun after picking it up.

    UMP is most versatile SMG in my opinion since you still have the advantages of a quick mobile weapon while being best SMG on range with high damage, accuracy and stability.

    As I stated before, the list is not based on points like easy to learn, easy to control, good for practicing aiming or recoil, etc.

    The list is more like: if you are the best player on the server that can handle absolutely every single gun in the game, which could be used most effectively. As a top player that can control AK's recoil and spread pattern, would you use SC-AR over AK? If you prefer long range you would grab an AK, for mid most likely KH417 or K22, for short range either EVO or MPX.
    Yes, there are preferances and dependances on the role you are playing, like you described the UMP utility. There are players that prefer M4A1 or MK5 and have tons of kills with these weaps, but if they would switch to more effective and being able to handle it, they could perform even better.

    Like in any other online game with competetive elements, people will find and choose most effective weapons and classes, no matter if you compare it with an FPS like CS:GO or MOBA like Smite.
  • VenVen
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    edited July 24, 2016
    @ForestWolf

    ah i see, if you assume this weapon tier list to be for the best player in the world than it does make a lot more sense, but typically Decent and above players have a tendancy to "shift" their playstyle depending on the gun they're using. When i used to use the deathstalker evo i ran in recklessly and sprayed down rooms of oppononets at a time, however this recklessness got me killed a lot.

    however with the UMP i find myself using it a lot like a psudo-AR, i am semi-cautious, bunny hop a lot less and take more time to analyse what the other team might be thinking or where they are coming from/heading to.

    in any case something like this isn't, and shouldn't be the be all end all weapon tier list. if you wanted to make one like that it would probably take several forum pages to go so indepth as to cover every base.
  • scikscik
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    edited July 24, 2016
    One thing I'd like to add is the idea that the K22 has better stats than the M4 and the Famas has better stats than the S25-R but I prefer the M4 and S25 because of the recoil pattern. The Famas and K22 have this weird recoil pattern that kicks more off to the side, so when bursting and controlling your vertical recoil it still kicks left and right and it's very difficult to get a centre hit. I call the Famas the 'Lotto-rifle' because of this trait.
    That said, the K22 and the Famas are better off for players who mainly aim at the chest and want to land all their shots reliably. The M4 and the S25-R have less of this horizontal recoil pattern and have less of this oblong-shaped accuracy when you burst fire. These weapons are better for players who aim mainly for the head and don't mind missing a few bullets as long as one clips the head.

    I've recently tried the L86-SEO and played a few games hipfire only, moving and shooting was impossible obviously but the accuracy for the hip-fire puts it miles ahead of the M249. This is similar to how the UMP has a lower DPS but can perform better than other weapons with a higher DPS of it's class because it's much easier to keep a tight accuracy. I guess what I'm trying to say is that it's easier to be more consistent with a more controllable weapon than a high-recoil, high-powered weapon.

    Looks like you're going to have to update this when the new Seburo weapons come out. Oh, don't forget about the new weapon balancing patch. Have fun xD
  • SnakeTheFoxSnakeTheFox
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    edited July 24, 2016
    Yeah, I feel like the SCAR is being rated unreasonably low. I'm not sure if it's hidden stats or what, but I went from averaging 1.5 or less K/D with the M4A1 and K22, to getting almost always 2.0+ K/D with the SCAR. I don't consider myself particularly good at this game, but these kind of matches felt easily attainable for me after kitting it out: http://i.imgur.com/ZlbEdbu.jpg

    I know that's "top 10" cherry picking, but those are probably 25% of the matches I've had in the last week or so, if you look at the dates. And I've yet to ever go negative K/D in a match with the SCAR.

    I'll admit I haven't tried the KH417 or AK yet, which seem to fill a similar niche, but I feel like for the kind of performance I'm getting out of the SCAR (considering I'm usually very mediocre at FPS games), it can't be a "D" tier weapon. It's at least an A or maybe B, in my opinion. Of note is that it does have a higher fire-rate than both the KH417 (only marginally) and AK (more noticeable), meaning a theoretically lower TTK if all your shots land.
  • HakureiHakurei
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    edited July 25, 2016
    ^ Yes this might be overlooked in this list. For AR's the fmas has the lowest ttk against a non nanogeller and center bodyshots. The m4a1, k22 and Scar have at least 35 dmg and higher firerate resulting in lower ttk than both the kh 417 and ak47. (Non nanogel) Scar with damage barrel actually is able to burst nanogellers with 3 shots. (Making it the fastest 3 shot nanogel killer).


  • K1B4N00UK1B4N00U
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    edited July 25, 2016
    Someone has the Full Equipped F-MAS G1 and the Full Equipped Deathstalker EVO and can compare them?
  • Player48105Player48105
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    edited July 25, 2016
    K1B4N00U
    K1B4N00U said:

    Someone has the Full Equipped F-MAS G1 and the Full Equipped Deathstalker EVO and can compare them?
    I've the famas + mpx. Two different weapons for different situations. Here you can read something about my opinion (post #3)....

    http://forums.firstassault.nexon.net/discussion/3172/advice-on-how-to-spend-250k-gp#latest

    Btw...I think there's no major difference between the deathstalker & mpx.
  • ForestWolfForestWolf
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    edited August 1, 2016
    As you might have noticed (or not :D) , I changed quite some stuff in the weapon Tier list and added the newly introduced SEBURO weapons.
    In my opinion the weapon balance is quite destroyed since the OB patch due to changes of recoil and spread pattern. Everyone including top players say that dying is just far too quick. In my opinion its not because the hitbox was fixed and everyone suddenly became super pro at aiming, but because you can shoot continuously and the bullets almost dont spray. That means you can fire half a magazine and it will hit almost the same spot, so you dont even need to control the recoilt or burst. You simply run in and spray, no praying included since the bullets will hit. That results in everyone hitting far more instead of hitting only first few shots and then hoping the bullets will spray into the enemy. Before Open Beta patch good players were burst or tap-firing over medium and long distances, now you dont see almost anyone bursting simply because you kill so much quicker with continuous fire. I can fire half a magazine onto the same point just by holding the mouse button down at close (<10m), medium (11-39) and even longer ranges (40). So far since the last fixes only reason to burst fire is enemy behind cover at 50+ distance, like the long corridor to B on PSS9 map, where on both sides you can barely see the head. Rest of the time and that is 95% of the cases spraying will get enemy killed in milliseconds without giving a chance to react. Before OB patch there were quite some times where I had the time to turn around and kill the enemy because they were spraying in my direction and due to weapon recoil I got hit 2-3 times and was left with few HP over watching bullets fly left/right and above me.

    Another reason why suddenly everyone can hit so much better and people die much quicker is the fact (or some might say its only my assumption) of bullets homing in on enemies. Yes, it sounds crazy when I say that there is a built in "aimbot" in the game. It was slightly noticable before OB patch, much more after the hitreg fixes. You can literally see bullets flying in curves onto enemies, ignoring the default spray pattern of the weapon. You can see enemies get hit outside of the screen, still in range of the weapon but nowhere close to aiming point. This is far more visible in videos played in 0,5 speed where you see especially last bullets in the magazine homing onto enemy heads even if all other bullets before were completely somewhere else.

    Why did I such an intro to the weapon tier list revamp: the both above described reasons have a devastating effect on the current balance. It is noticable that quick shooting assault rifles and some MGs are ruling the kill counts at the moment. There are barely maps where SMGs are still effective (Port and Geofront are such examples) and sniper rifles can only one-shot up to their effective range, meaning you are tagging enemies if they are too far away or you have hard time aiming at close range. On top the current balance means surely you die if you didnt kill the enemy on your first shot especially at close range. Each time I play against some decent players and use a sniper, my face is melted before even the scope closes if I miss a shot. With introduction of the new SEBURO C-30 we have multiple assault rifles with 20m+ effective range and heavy damage+accuracy that can shoot almost as quick as an SMG. Some MGs can 2-shot enemies when used with range finder. This situation makes Saito an insanely OP class at the moment because pre-fire kills without any chance to react.
    The new range CBC are a cool addition of individualising guns, but the problem with them is: most AR need only 3 hits now to be lethal even if 1 shot goes into arms/legs. That combined with the accurate spray pattern results in quicker assault rifles being far more effective than slower accurate rifles like AK or KH were.

    Changes to the list:
    -SEBURO -C30 to S Tier (highest points assault rifle, highe fire rate combined with damage); SEBURO MG to A Tier (2-shot potential combiend with high firerate); SEBURO SR to C Tier (nothing special, but 1-shot potential in effective range); SEBURO C-26A to D Tier (no reason to use it besides look, statwise and behaviour for an SMG are not better than higher Tiers).
    -EVO from S to A; KH-417 from S to B; AK-47 from S to C (fire rate combined with damage are main stats at the moment)
    -SA50 to A Tier (semi-automatic sniper with one-shot potential)
    -UMP to C Tier (slow fire rate, accuracy + stability not much worth anymore)
    -MG36 to A Tier (2-shot potential, fine fire rate)
    -Some minor changes between C and D tiers, nothing that interesting.
    Midlord