FEEDBACK - Castle Prototype Testing

LumosNXALumosNXA
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edited February 23 in Suggestions and Feedback
Greetings, Operatives!

In this patch, we have added a prototype map for Terminal Conquest Mode called Castle. We are in the process of creating this map due to the community’s need for a new map in the TC cycle.

Your feedback during the prototype phase is crucial and we would like to hear your thoughts as you play and explore the map. For the next two weeks, please leave your feedback in this thread, focusing on 3 areas:
• Fun element
• Map size
• Balance

Please stay on topic and keep the conversation about Castle feedback. Please note that the map is a work in progress, but not all feedback/suggestions can or will be implemented. Any changes made to the map will be announced in this thread.

Feel free to report any bugs in this thread.

We will be actively checking in on this thread to answer any questions or concerns. Thank you for your time and dedication, we are looking forward to hearing all of your feedback, ideas, and suggestions!

-The First Assault Team-
wisytus1KawaccinoWootwoot

Comments

  • WootwootWootwoot
    First Assault Rep: 1,080
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    edited February 23
    Just in case this might be helpful to anyone.

    34j6v0p.jpg
    VenkmanP4prik4BloodEyeAlmalexion
  • ConeCone
    First Assault Rep: 1,820
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    edited February 23
    Only played this once but I don't like how Point D is looking directly at E, E's spawns were a bit bad because of this. We couldn't take D because the enemy team could easily look at E's main entrance.
    FolkAuto
  • CusashornCusashorn
    First Assault Rep: 6,745
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited February 23
    - Point D's actual capture radius is almost completely taken up by the giant bell itself. You have to almost touch the bell to start capturing the point. Increasing the radius there by a small amount might help.

    - You can jump up into the top of the Pagoda from the top of the terminal located inside capture point C.

    - Capturing point B from C is a complete nightmare for the attacking team. I know that the design is supposed to help the defending team capture back, but my team could barely even get close to it just now. Didn't help that they had two turrets and a think tank set up, but most of my own deaths came from getting sniped by the alley leading to point A, FROM point A.
    wisytus1KawaccinoConeWootwoot
  • P4prik4P4prik4
    First Assault Rep: 2,745
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    edited February 23
    i'd like a test with even teams. ive had a lot of one sided games go both sides but mostly losing when defending the high ground side. Its mostly C that is difficult to capture from D. I'd like some kind of two story option when capturing C coming from D.
    kind of like in Dubbing Site the double windows above.
    or more cover options maybe.
    Defending D and E feels pretty fair so far imo. depends on comp and how you deal with tachikomas.

    I really like the non symmetry aspect of the map and encouraging the strategic use of nades/smokes for it. As well as great for snipers.

    Maven really shines in this map too.
  • AlmalexionAlmalexion
    First Assault Rep: 2,220
    Posts: 213
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    edited February 25
    New map is a campers Paradise !
    May the best campers wins !
    Seriously... Everytime I check the whole map, all I see a giant letter S :D
    Anyway... Let's start:

    -Fun element:
    It's TC, It's allways fun as long as you'll get lotsa kill like you're in a kill fest or slaughter house...

    -Map Size:
    It's ok, a giant Letter S. My vote for the next map is a giant letter W for the win ! Or tachikoma shaped map is ok too for creativity & giggles & fun :)

    -Balance:
    All hail the king of Issues !
    Seriously, if you start from the bottom side, you pretty much screwed. Say goodbye to your kdr and wlr.
    Red: Team lower side
    Blue: Team upper side
    Site C :
    R069E7.jpg
    It is pretty much ok, better one is allways wins in there. I mean better camper :)
    Site B:
    7q8X8N.jpg
    Ho boi... If you're attacker, you're pretty much done. Show your head = bam from the north or east, this is where the map balance issue show itself like you see in this picture. And this is the only open space place in the map where the point is located and this creates a problem in itself 'cuz rest of it in close space. Never saw being captured when I played... If somehow you can be able to distort the enemy teams vision and such, you probably be able to capture, but also heavy rush is required ! And best way to capture it is attacking from the north, supressing from the south.
    Site A:
    ojz8AR.jpg
    Couldn't be able to see this place so I cannot comment on this location. Map is just pretty much estimating the situation. Further Research Required ! My guess is same as Site E situation...
    Edit: I be able to see this place finally, it's a little less like site E, and pretty much how I estimated. North side is two floors, attackers should watch out the surroundings and can also supress the defenders from there, and defenders should watch over the windows too. To capture the point, heavy rush and supression is required. If the north is breached, defenders can have a hard time...
    Site D:
    1LnDkY.jpg
    This site is pretty much unbalanced too. Easy to capture and easy to lose for both teams. If defender loses, they can say goodby to that terminal. Attackers have 3 direct points to attack and defenders have 2 point to recapture and attack. Supressing the defenders easy, hard to supress the attackers. And there is also a goddamn rail that easy to cover attackers. If the defenders can be able to supress the attackers on the stairs, they can pretty much be able to defend but if they loose in there, they had less chance to take the terminal back.
    Site E:
    696qq3.jpg
    Map shows itself. This turns it to a waiting game. Hard to capture because defenders spawn point is really close to the terminal. And pretty much everybody becomes sniper at this point. Because who ever shows it's head first, gets a headshot allways. Only way to capture this place is just supressing heavily.

    Pretty much this is my summary and Feedback. Thanks for reading. Also pictures are useable for tactics.

    Bonus: Feedback on new shotgun:
    Pretty much terrible. 15 bullets makes it's reload time unbearable and not much accurate and fast. It needs muzzle, barrel and grip upgrades to compensate it's bad sides a little for becomes not favorable to a less favorable weapon !
    CusashornWootwootP4prik4
  • KawaccinoKawaccino
    First Assault Rep: 1,660
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    edited February 24
    Hey guys.

    So, about this map: I played it all evening yesterday and plan to play it all evening today too. I think you understood that I love this map.

    Fun element:
    It is fun, there are many ways to go to the same point which make it a very dynamic map as the capturing team has to watch everywhere to defend the terminal efficiently. BUT, if the team actually works as a team it's not that difficult to do. So, I think it's a great map to improve team work. Plus, there are many hidden ladders to get to even more points, there are a lot of environment items to hide behind, lots of corners, ... It's really a nice map.
    I also think the way the terminal are disposed makes it a great map for Bato. I mean, one well placed missile can change everything. Same goes for the drones.

    Map size:
    It's a really nice size as it is not all closed up. As I said, there are many paths toward the same terminal, there are many terminals too so we aren't always working on the same one. It's vast but not too much.

    Balance:
    For now I didn't see any balance problems but I need to play it some more to have a really good idea about this, with various players.

    Else:
    This map is really beautiful even without the textures (the cherry trees grabbed my attention more than once yesterday). I can't wait to see it with the textures, it looks really promising. Congrats on the designers and the devs, they did a very nice job on this one.
    It's the first time I'm so excited by a new prototype map. The hype is high with this one, I really love it.
    P4prik4
  • MidlordMidlord
    First Assault Rep: 4,135
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    edited February 24
    I had fun in the one game I could play. It went between terminals D and B so I don't know about the other two. Just one game isn't enough to have a thought on it set in stone, so far I liked it a lot, with the many angles of approach and flanking. I don't think the D point is as bad as two posts above is said with that 2 ways for defenders and three for attackers. Defenders can use that south side to mount a flank and effectively shut down the attackers, I think. It's something I need to play more to confirm.

    I did find two issues, see the video:



    First at hose stepping stones, if you get over at certain angles, they slow you or turn you to the side or both. The typical there's an edge to the walking surface, at first the game it's a hard edge and doesn't want to let you through, then it gets that it's not, that it's a change in height and then it allows you, but between it's stopped you or forced your character to move along the edge. In the video you see I move to a side a lot, but not all is caused by the stones, as I had already had one instance of the problem before and in there as soon I notice I just strafe as I run to avoid it. The other you can see there: those stairs don't work.
  • mutronixmutronix
    First Assault Rep: 1,165
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    edited February 24
    Motokos active camo is invisible against the background of white walls
  • VenkmanVenkman
    First Assault Rep: 7,225
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    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited February 24
    Thank you for all the input everyone! Keep it coming!
  • HilliHilli
    First Assault Rep: 2,290
    Posts: 168
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    edited February 24
    Will the map become a night disign ? Ithink the illuminated rooms and the darker outside give a good ambience.

    Balancing:

    Point A and E both have the smae strengths and weaknesses. While the defending teams hold thier point it feels like a siege, I like it. If the attackers pushed to the point, then have the defending team no chance to come back, because thier routes are very easy to cut and hold by the attackers, the defenders have no chance to flank and no chnce to throw nades on the point.
    At point B need the defending team on thier left route more cover and the option to use thier mid and right route unseen, because you can see them when they running from thier spawn to the right enter.
    Point C is unbalnced. The team that comes from B has a winrate of 90%. The team that comes from D has only the chance to push at the beginning. Later are this routes like the way to the sloughterhouse. I had only one match we won C, but my team was a tryhard team and we won the match 3:0. Btw. while we were caping C, for the other team was thier two routes a way to the sloughterhouse too. This point is worser than the C terminal on District Ruins.
    I played this map 5 or 6 times and I spend the most time by point D. This point is good and makes much fun, but there are a few points that have change too.
    First, give the defenders a option to run unseen down from thier.
    Second, add a wall at the right ramp on the bridge, so guys can't cover from the bridge the left ramp and the right downside.

    I like this map, it's a very cool location with some really good considered points (D,B). It could be a very great TC map when the C terminal get balanced.
    P4prik4
  • CusashornCusashorn
    First Assault Rep: 6,745
    Posts: 884
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    edited February 24
    mutronix wrote: »
    Motokos active camo is invisible against the background of white walls

    This is an alpha testing stage. Just like Underground, Train Station, and Military Dome, the textures for the map are added in later.

  • TarkinTarkin
    First Assault Rep: 2,235
    Posts: 319
    Member+
    edited February 25
    Please, if you gonna test prototype maps in the future, add special game mode with only that map - no rotation allowed. I spended almost hour trying to find Castle, but I found only Demolition matches. Yes, I checked custom rooms too.

    Please, think about it...
    P4prik4
  • HakureiHakurei
    First Assault Rep: 8,385
    Posts: 1,685
    Volunteer Forum Moderator
    edited February 26
    @Andu Please dont go off topic, the begin post clearly says this thread is for the new Castle Map ONLY.
    Make a different thread or post it somewhere suitable.

    edit: splitted your posts to http://forums.firstassault.nexon.net/discussion/7888/general-feedback-after-the-castle-prototype-patch
  • AnduAndu
    First Assault Rep: 4,805
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    edited February 27
    @Hakurei first post contained some feedback about new Prototype map, but you probably didnt even try to read entire post just few first lines.

    quote myfelf:
    About new map - thats very nice map the only thing I dont like is C point from both teams. If one team occupy the C point opposite team have no chance to get in. because there are 3 or 4 spots thats bootleneck and thats easily to guard from the obstacle.
    Probably thats because of naked map (without texures) - when everything is white or gray its easy to see black enemy running.
    I really enjoy the B and D points that have maaany many spots for taking off enemies.
    Im still learning that map running with saito.

    edit:
    My real first time on that map

    I think C point is hard to recover if one team will take controll once the point is impossible to recover - then game is about who will get first 5:4
  • WootwootWootwoot
    First Assault Rep: 1,080
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    edited February 28
    Overall, really like the map. At first, I thought that the distances between points were a bit too far apart, but after playing it a few times it just looks like there might be a few smaller things that need to be added/amended to make it more balanced.


    1. Initial fight for C

    For some reason, it seems like 9 times out of 10 the team that starts from B inevitably wins the point. I’m not quite sure what it is exactly, but I have a few ideas. First, it might be that B-->C has more straight lines leading to C than D does, so that B team gets there quicker, especially with Paz hypersprint. D seems shorter but the interior maze might be the culprit for the delay (see 1). Second, B -->C also has a few map feature advantages over D-->C, such as; a right angle corner (see 2), good vantage point from the wall ladder, and the door positioning into the pagoda. D-->C on the other hand has two very limited doors that don’t seem to offer much field-of-view. Potential remedies might be to spawn the D team a little bit closer to C. Also, the right angle corner seems to be an advantage to B team, so perhaps a symmetrical corner can be made on the other side to benefit D team (see 3).

    smf0ps.png

    2. Contesting B (C-->B & A-->B)

    This is a pretty fun section and its actually a very enjoyable point to fight over on both sides. The alleyway seems to be where all the action is and there are some fun times to be had in the interior section.

    3. Contesting A (B--> A)

    Originally I thought it would be a nightmare to get into A from B but the section seems really well balanced. It’s good that A (and E for that matter) have a slight defensive edge to keep the game going.

    4. Contesting D (C-->D & E -->D)

    I’ve noticed a bit of difficulty in E-->D’s approach, especially from a straight forward assault into the doorway behind the screens. The top-left corner of D (in the map orientation) makes it impossible for E team to get a solid foothold if you get a turret up in that spot. Perhaps adding another door (or making the door wider) might solve this. Also, the screen is a bit of an issue for the team coming from E since grenades thrown at it bounce in just the right place to wipe out anyone covering on the other side of the door. And I also agree that the bell cap is a bit too close in. But then again, that might be intentional to make the capture more challenging.

    29qbcef.jpg

    5. Contesting E (D-->E)

    Originally I thought that this area was too open, but it makes the map more varied and fun. A few things though. Adding the additional door from the back alleyway might help the approach for the attackers and give more opportunities for the defenders. Additionally, the Defenders at E might need an object for cover on the side of the castle. I noticed that because it’s so out in the open, players hang back towards the side door instead of engaging the enemy as they approach.

    152f3td.png
    Midlord
  • MidlordMidlord
    First Assault Rep: 4,135
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    edited February 28
    I think I found what would be a real camping spot. Of the kind to complain about. Someone prefiring, perhaps knowing one is there might take him out of where I was, but I don't see that as enough. Perhaps the hole should be bigger. Or maybe place a window at the end so players from B would be a threat to mind. I feel like it's possible that spot would make it too easy to shut down that way to the attackers. Even if you could argue someone camping there is effectively taking himself out of A's defence, I feel the spot needs some improvements to make it less easy to defend. You can say someone can come in from the door at the other side of that corridor, but considering that's beyond the terminal room I think that's unsatisfactory answer. You get to get past the terminal to remove an advanced defender.

  • AnduAndu
    First Assault Rep: 4,805
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    edited February 28
    I played like 4 matches there and marked some places for attack for both teams in red arrows, and yellow places are safe positions/camp posiotions for stopping enemies
    Ghost A:
    5e0d5ae55b.jpg
    That point is very easy to defend - there is one very safe spot that can see the point directly without risk of being taken out from the one of 2 entrances. So - you can take out enemy at the point and support ally running on point only covering him from left side. Other 2 places for defence are useless, because of direction straight on enemy entrances. and one more thing - there is nice spot for throwing nades right under enemies feet from the safe spot.

    Ghost B:
    5e0d66e680.jpg

    Point E is hard to attack and easy to defend because of 2 bottlenecks with max 3 expected places to go from and there are too many places to make defence from keeping enemies at D

    The most controversial point for both teams is C -lile I mentioned before - when one team capture that point then its very hard to take it back because of ... again 2 bootlenack places and few wall climable places easy to clear by enemies. Team who capture point C will surround that point and use its stairs as a cover + few camp places in corner directed onto way out of enemies.
    Enemies climbing are instantly taken out like port ladder due to climbing animation.

    I have never been at A and E point defending them - the A point is strange.

    I detected one possible abuse place for nades. you see huge Ghost A spawn place at point A - that is next to the enemy hallway to the C point. Smart players would throw nade from A safe spot right to the hallway for wipe enemies attempting to capture C.
  • TesunaTesuna
    First Assault Rep: 755
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    edited March 1
    The ladders in this map is poorly placed IMO except for A's because A's is inside a room with covers. People can just literally sit and watch where people come up the ladder as they are stuck in the animation and will just instantly die. The ladder at B especially is terrible, as soon as you get up there you are instantly expose to everyone on the enemy team straight from their spawn.
    I suggest moving the ladder access behind a wall or add some kind of cover for people when they come up so they don't instantly die.

    I think you should make the last point spawns closer for the defending side because they cannot leave their spawn once their last point is taken over. By the time they try to get near the terminal or close to it their armor is already gone and people are camping around corners and instantly killing people running by specially A.
    A has a lot of cover for and angles for people to hide by.

    I find D the best place of the entire map because each team has 3 areas they can approach the terminal that is behind cover and does not let a person camp one entrance and be able to see all the others that easily. But the ramp going up to D from C is annoying since you can only see the tip of their head and they can see your entire body if they hide there looking into the terminal.

    The fences at C makes it super hard to see enemies that camp right up against it and trying to shoot them is even harder as the fence will chew up some of the bullets reducing the damage dealt to those guys. Either make the gaps in the fences bigger or remove the fences because the team that holds terminal can just sit there with a MG and spray away. Even I tough time trying to hit them with a careful sniper shot or tap firing with my ak(i don't always snipe c: )
    OhBoyItsDankP4prik4
  • LouiselotteLouiselotte
    First Assault Rep: 6,570
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    edited March 23
    I think the A point is a bit too hard for attackers to get to. There are too many well defended points that defenders can camp in to block out attackers, while attackers don't have any useful flank routes to disrupt them. Especially since the ladder that the attackers have access to is really easily guarded by just one person. Other than that I've been having a good amount of fun, but I'll update with more comments later.
  • HackSlashSDJHackSlashSDJ
    First Assault Rep: 200
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    edited April 28
    I know that because it's beta can have some problems, some lags .. but it's a lot of lags without proportions ..I play on the South America server and it's impossible to play with all those!!

    Guys this is so promissing, soo nice..
    sorry, but the problem is with this game, worse, is killing the hame itself .. I'm starting to regret spending my money here and I am seriously thinking of not spending 1 cent more if this continues.

    FIX THIS, please!!